Question:

writes: So, Self-Administration is OUT, if only because you aren’t getting your blood pressure checked often enough. Does this make sense?

If this is a problem, it should be mentioned on the packaging. I’m very tired of having to spend megabucks so some jerk who doesn’t know me can make decisions that I can make perfectly well myself. I fully support regulations concerning truth in labeling, but I’d just as soon they didn’t make all the stimulants prescription-only.

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::::::writes: :::::: ::::::A young man here on Long Island took ephedrine and died. He was using ::::::the herbal crap, and the dosage was not clear. The story was that he ::::::did not take a lot. :::::: ::::::Ephedrine is not a herbal remedy.  You must be confused. :::::: I saw something on TV that said he took a large dose of something with Ma Hwang which is a chinese herb that has ehedra in it which I believe is the herbal equivalent …

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writes: I saw something on TV that said he took a large dose of something with Ma Hwang which is a chinese herb that has ehedra in it which I believe is the herbal equivalent …

It was not a large dose. It was slightly over what the package said. Go ahead, defend the poison. Mark S. Probert Merrick, New York

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This is all ridiculous.. Ephedrine is as safe as tylenol or bayer.  The reason these "kids" are dying is because they are overdosing on the drug.. Not because the drug hat some adverse reaction on their body.  I have been using ma huang and its related forms for years w/ no problems..  Ask any herbalist about the safety of any ma huang product and you’ll get the truth.  You ever think that alot of this is hyped up because it is starting to be abused and the govt will do pretty much anything to scare you? Ryan McCain — | GENEX, Now Online, Offers You The Most Diversified, Useful, Odd, |   | Affordable, Unique, "neato", Non-Trendy, Quality, Grandmother  /| | Approved, Off-The-Wall Products And Services That Allow For An /|   | Easier, Healthier, Happier, Wealthier, and "hipper" Life For U!! |

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(Ryan McCain) writes: This is all ridiculous.. Ephedrine is as safe as tylenol or bayer.  The

reason these "kids" are dying is because they are overdosing on the drug.. Not because the drug hat some adverse reaction on their body. I have been using ma huang and its related forms for years w/ no problems..  Ask any herbalist about the safety of any ma huang product and you’ll get the truth.  You ever think that alot of this is hyped up because it is starting to be abused and the govt will do pretty much anything to scare you?< Nope. What scares me is the autopsy report on one of the dead students where the crap was loaded with all sorts of things that accelerate the effects of ephedrine. Ever read an autopsy report? I have read many. THEY are scary. Mark S. Probert Merrick, New York

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Re: ephedra and access to it. A few years ago, I was one of the people who started the "smart drink" phenomenon here in SF. (I had become very adept at mixing amino-acids and other herbal and non-herbal nutrients to make mild, fairly natural, cognition-enhancing drinks, for what I now know was untreated ADD.. Unfortunatly, most of my drinks were really expensive to make, compared to most nutritional supplements, so even despite a global good reputation , and lots of customer interest, eventually I had to drop out of the business.. I never really had the seed money I needed to make it work, despite a lot of interesting empirical research that I had done.. )  One of the _main_ reasons I had to quit was because of the proliferation of these "herbal ecstasy" and "smart drink" vendors who sold cheap products containing nothing significant but ephedra. These products _are_ dangerous, and they are promoted unethically. (as drugs).. They _should_ be taken off the market, but _only_ if people with untreated ADD are encouraged to seek treatment, and methods are set up to make it financially possible for those who can’t afford it.  There are a _lot_ of people in that situation. (3 to 5 percent of the population, I have heard.. and many of those people are marginal) Ephedra isn’t reliable for ADD on a continuing basis, but there are many ADDers who have found that ephedra is good for a few hours of mild mental clarity if it is used infrequently.I think the raw herb should remain available, but products that concentrate it should be taken off the market if they make drug claims.

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::::::writes: ::::::A young man here on Long Island took ephedrine and died. He was using ::::::the herbal crap, and the dosage was not clear. The story was that he ::::::did not take a lot. ::::::Ephedrine is not a herbal remedy.  You must be confused. :::::: I saw something on TV that said he took a large dose of something with Ma Hwang which is a chinese herb that has ehedra in it which I believe is the herbal equivalent …

The show I saw (I think it was 20/20) mentioned the Herbal Ecstacy product that is available at certain "progressive" shops, tee shirt stores, head shops, etc. and contains an herbal compound that boasts energy-giving potential. The buzz words on the packaging are things like "visual vibrations", "energy enhancement" etc. The product contains Ma Huang, an herb containing ephedrine. The man who died from taking the product took 8 pills – the box said to take 4. He felt dizziness and rapid heartbeat and was later found dead in his hotel room. My guess is that Ma Huang may become a controlled substance at some time in the near future. -Nancy Hix — Think Spring!

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Amen, I absolutely agree.  My experience with Primatene is 100% positive.  I’m going to try generic ephedrine someday soon.

You can get it? I haven’t seen it in any form but combined for asthma.

Response:

(MSProbert) writes: However, fiften deaths due to the herbal stuff have been confirmed. Over 400 serious adverse reactions have been confirmed. I have been addressing the herbal side of this.

I’ve noticed that most of the herbal concoctions have quite a mix of active herbs, too–perhaps some of them exacerbate the ephedra?

Response:

A young man here on Long Island took ephedrine and died. He was using the herbal crap, and the dosage was not clear. The story was that he did not take a lot. Ephedrine is not a herbal remedy.  You must be confused.

OK< he was using the "all natural" crap. Mark S. Probert Merrick, New York

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writes: I’ve noticed that most of the herbal concoctions have quite a mix of active herbs, too–perhaps some of them exacerbate the ephedra?

Who knows? Certatinly not the manufacturers or the users. Mark S. Probert Merrick, New York

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: writes:

: A young man here on Long Island took ephedrine and died. He was using : the herbal crap, and the dosage was not clear. The story was that he : did not take a lot. : Ephedrine is not a herbal remedy.  You must be confused.       Ma Huang/Ephedra is used as a herbal remedy, and it’s a "raw" form of ephedrine.

Response:

writes: Self-Administration is OUT, if only because you aren’t getting your blood pressure checked often enough. Does this make sense?

I can check my own BP at the local Drug store.  I can choose to care for myself.  It’s not irresponsible to take responsibility for yourself.  Accepting responsibility is not being irresponsible, see? — Laura Goodwin   <— that friendly Hartford, CT lady "I am in earnest. I will not equivocate; I will not excuse; I will not retreat a single inch; And I will be heard." (Wm. L. Garrison)

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Ephedrine is not a herbal remedy.  You must be confused.

There are a bunch of herbal concoctions out there, with names like "Super Energy" and stuff like that that have ephedrine-containing herbs in them, along with a bunch of others. Some of them are pretty potent, and evidently dangerous. Unfortunately, the hysteria concerning them is likely to spill over onto the legit medications containing ephedrine. It already has, here. The over-the-counter diet pills have already been banned, and the Primatene tabs seem to be the only legal drug left. Hopefully, they won’t mess with it because it would inconvenience a lot of asthma sufferers…

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writes: I’m using the Primatene tablets. They’re well-controlled, have ample warnings on the box, and I’ve had no side effects whatsoever. I support proper labeling and purity testing of things like this–but please don’t let them pull them from the market and make them prescription only!

I am referring to the sale of products that do not have the same controls as Primatene. Mark S. Probert Merrick, New York

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writes: A young man here on Long Island took ephedrine and died. He was using the herbal crap, and the dosage was not clear. The story was that he did not take a lot.

Ephedrine is not a herbal remedy.  You must be confused. — Laura Goodwin   <— that friendly Hartford, CT lady "I am in earnest. I will not equivocate; I will not excuse; I will not retreat a single inch; And I will be heard." (Wm. L. Garrison)

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I’m using the Primatene tablets. They’re well-controlled, have ample warnings on the box, and I’ve had no side effects whatsoever. I support proper labeling and purity testing of things like this–but please don’t let them pull them from the market and make them prescription only! The Primatene is a wonderful substitute–it works better than ritalin for me, and my eye tic is subsiding.

Amen, I absolutely agree.  My experience with Primatene is 100% positive.  I’m going to try generic ephedrine someday soon. — Laura Goodwin   <— that friendly Hartford, CT lady "I am in earnest. I will not equivocate; I will not excuse; I will not retreat a single inch; And I will be heard." (Wm. L. Garrison)

Response:

: Goodwin) writes:

: …but has enough counter indicators to make self administration, a : problem. : Why, because some doctor isn’t getting a check? Sorry, must have missed the original reply…. No, when I make a recommendation, it is MY OWN recommendation, this has nothing to do with doctors, as anyone that knows me will be GLAD to point out. Do you understand what BLOOD PRESSURE is used for? Let me put it another way, My mother has LOW BLOOD pressure, it was missed by the MD because, he was looking for HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE. She darned near DIED! NOW she has her own blood pressure machine at home, and is under doctors orders to come in if it drops past a particular point. And her blood pressure was only low on ONE of the parameters they check. Ephedrine blocks BOTH types of blood pressure. It therefore creates an opportunity, for a doctor, to "MISS" the problem, especially if he doesn’t know what to look for. In other words Self administration of pure ephedrine is dangerous, because it causes unexpected symptoms, and therefore can cause unexpected opportunities for doctors to screw up. Does this sound like I am PRO-Doctor? (I don’t think so) On the other hand, in the case of a drug that has known symptomology of associated high blood pressure, the use of ephedrine, might ameliorate the effect resulting in a normal blood pressure. It still should be a major factor in any checkups, that the doctor does, but, its less likely to be FATAL. So, Self-Administration is OUT, if only because you aren’t getting your blood pressure checked often enough. Does this make sense?                                 GREY belated disclaimer: Anything posted by me in this group represents my opinion based on my own interpretation second hand of other peoples medical publications. It does not necessarily represent any other interest groups views, and should be viewed with some scepticism, as I often tend to speculate. I am not a doctor nor a qualified scientist, and my recommendations are meant as opinions and not necessarily advice. However, when I tell you that Ephedrine is dangerous, I think my opinion is shared by those who ARE qualified, and ARE doctors, or scientists, as all present research into the use of Ephedrine combines it with another drug that acts to limit the LOW BLOOD PRESSURE potential of the original drug. Please, be SURE what you are taking before you take it. Your life may hang in ballance. — 2536 138A ave Edmonton            

Response:

: Goodwin) writes:

: …but has enough counter indicators to make self administration, a : problem. : Why, because some doctor isn’t getting a check? : : have you read any messages about the deadly effects of ephedrine?      Whoof.  Mark, I think you’re being a *LITTLE* alarmist.  Not much, necessarily.        First, there’s the herbal ephedrine, ephedra and ma huang (sp?). You’re right; no quality/dosage control.  Then, there’s ephedrine, sold as ephedrine.  THAT must pass quality control; I believe it’s used in asthma treatment.  Since it’s OTC, it’s often also used as a stimulant in place of caffeine.  This isn’t an "official" use, and the ephedrine bottles I read all said that they weren’t intended for purposes other than asthma treatment, and ESPECIALLY don’t use them to stay awake or anything.  (Hey, the government TOLD them not to label it as an alertness aid, they were just following orders!)      I haven’t heard of any non-over-dose, non-unreasonable use deaths from ephedrine, but I’d still be cautious about it.

Response:

Palmer) writes:     I haven’t heard of any non-over-dose, non-unreasonable use deaths from ephedrine, but I’d still be cautious about it.

A young man here on Long Island took ephedrine and died. He was using the herbal crap, and the dosage was not clear. The story was that he did not take a lot. However, fiften deaths due to the herbal stuff have been confirmed. Over 400 serious adverse reactions have been confirmed. I have been addressing the herbal side of this. Mark S. Probert Merrick, New York

Response:

(MSProbert) writes: have you read any messages about the deadly effects of ephedrine? Have you read about the FDA report? The herbal drug industry is unregulated and their feeble attempts at quality control have resulted in fifteen (15) deaths due to ephedrine and hundreds of adverse reactions. Powerful chemicals intended for use in humans should be manufactured in a controlled setting and have to pass tests of efficacy and proper dosage. Let ephedrine be tested only 10% as well as ritalin.

I’m using the Primatene tablets. They’re well-controlled, have ample warnings on the box, and I’ve had no side effects whatsoever. I support proper labeling and purity testing of things like this–but please don’t let them pull them from the market and make them prescription only! Without them, I’d be falling apart–after this rough winter, I can’t afford to have all of us on ritalin right now–only the ones needing the highest doses are getting it currently. The Primatene is a wonderful substitute–it works better than ritalin for me, and my eye tic is subsiding.

Response:

Goodwin) writes: …but has enough counter indicators to make self administration, a problem. Why, because some doctor isn’t getting a check?

have you read any messages about the deadly effects of ephedrine? Have you read about the FDA report? The herbal drug industry is unregulated and their feeble attempts at quality control have resulted in fifteen (15) deaths due to ephedrine and hundreds of adverse reactions. Powerful chemicals intended for use in humans should be manufactured in a controlled setting and have to pass tests of efficacy and proper dosage. Let ephedrine be tested only 10% as well as ritalin. Mark S. Probert Merrick, New York

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: writes:

(re: ephedrine) : …but has enough counter indicators to make self administration, a : problem. : Why, because some doctor isn’t getting a check?     There have been deaths reported "directly linked" to ephedrine.  The only one I heard of was a huge over-dose. . . but that death was not precipitated by the kind of warning signs one might have expected.     That is, the person wasn’t trying to kill himself; the person wasn’t ignoring humongous warning signs.  Don’t assume ephedrine is "safe", and please, talk to a doctor about counterindications, and mention it during routine physicals.  This won’t "give a doctor a check", but it will look out for your own well being.

Response:

writes: In short, it seems likely that Ephedrine might have some value as an ADD Drug, in combination with Ritalin, or as an alternative

No kidding!  I have been taking it for weeks now, and it’s great! …but has enough counter indicators to make self administration, a problem.

Why, because some doctor isn’t getting a check? I have low blood pressure normally, and zero negative side effects with ephedrine.  I’m getting *ALL* the positive effects reported with ritalin, etc. at a fraction of the cost. — Laura Goodwin   <— that friendly Hartford, CT lady "I am in earnest. I will not equivocate; I will not excuse; I will not retreat a single inch; And I will be heard." (Wm. L. Garrison)

Response:

Since there are people taking primatene, for the ephedrine, and because one of them asked me, I thought I would look up. There isn’t anything much on its use as a treatment for ADD, but there are hints, that it does, have some Sympatho-mimetic effect like Rits. Ephedrine is an adrenergic blocking agent, and its symptho-mimetic effect is likely caused by the increase in the Norepinephrine/Epinephrine ballance caused by the co-production of norepinephrine during adrenal production, and the blocking of the effect of the resulting Epinephrine. It is not a selective blocker and affects both the alpha2 and beta2 receptors which means that it also affects the blood pressure, of BOTH types (Before and after the doctor pumps up the cuff). Since my mothers falls and heart condition are partially caused by low blood pressure, which was not properly detected because, it only affected the resting level, I see this as a particularly dangerous, and subtle side effect. Association with Stroke, with Mania, and so on, suggests that this is not a drug that is free from side effects. It should only be administered under the direct supervision of a doctor that knows that it might cause blood pressure changes. Ephedrine, in combination with another stimulant such as caffeine is being tested for use, but some of the other drugs it is distributed with, in nasal sprays, have even worse side effects, so use of an inhalant for ADD is dangerous, if only because of the second drug. The potential for a psychosis, similar to phenyl psychosis, or adrenal psychosis has been noted, as this drug makes it possible to have a high adrenal level, without the stimulant effects, that might normally clear the phenyl out of the body. In short, it seems likely that Ephedrine might have some value as an ADD Drug, in combination with Ritalin, or as an alternative, but has enough counter indicators to make self administration, a problem. I really can’t recommend the use of Asthma Inhalants containing Ephedrine for ADD.                                 Grey — 2536 138A ave Edmonton            

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