Question:

So does acupuncture…..results, not just claims bear witness to its efficacy.   My, my, why can’t Hulda say that (with a straight face)? Andrew, you’ve said this before.   Please post here two studies that you consider prove your point. John, I think the WHO & NIH have both fielded that one nicely.

I love how he always dodges the requests to back his claims, while demanding proof from others for their claims. Especially after he said the burden of proof is always on the claimant.

Response:

Patients also seem to like us to.   Must be the inherently charming personality of those in the field!

Yep, those quacks can sure be charmers. That is how they con their prey.

Response:

Evading the issue Andrew?? WHERE ARE THE STUDIES??? Oh, Jan, you do amuse me!  You really shouldn’t give me the satisfaction, but you just can’t help it! Uh huh……and WHERE ARE THE STUDIES??

You might as well give up Jan. I don’t recall Jackoff ever posting proof of any off his claims when asked since he has been on this board. This despite his statement that the burden of proof is always on the claimant. Just like the nutcase Carol (Yarrow) he refuses to play by his own rules.

Response:

Evading the issue Andrew?? WHERE ARE THE STUDIES??? Oh, Jan, you do amuse me!  You really shouldn’t give me the satisfaction, but you just can’t help it! Uh huh……and WHERE ARE THE STUDIES?? You might as well give up Jan.

Sure looks that way doesn’t it??  I don’t recall Jackoff ever posting proof of any off his claims when asked since he has been on this board. This despite his statement that the burden of proof is always on the claimant. Just like the nutcase Carol (Yarrow) he refuses to play by his own rules.

You got it!! Jan

Response:

Jackoff, Since you believe in acupuncture, tell all of us how it works. Be specific.

Response:

Jan, Funny how the sci-meds are happy with the current body of research.

Try again. POST THE STUDIES!! You should learn to find contentment in other areas of your life,

Evading the issue Andrew?? WHERE ARE THE STUDIES??? Jan, why not come to Orlando for a demonstration.   After all, you said you were gonna come visit me.    Was that an outright lie or just a broken promise?

Another attempt to start a false story Andrew??  This is a fine example of rewording posts that Mike was speaking of.  Or maybe you just can’t Jan, You want me to treat you?  It would be my pleasure.   Still, it is to your benefit to bring any available medical records you have.  

Just joshing you Andrew, but if I had more time,  I truly would like to come see you. It would be fun to tell you who I was *after* you had treated me. Sucks…..another false accusation…..down the tubes.  Will you ever learn?? Jan

Response:

BL, Yes, Chiropractic enjoys even greater mainstream acceptance, at the moment.   Two years ago, DC’s got almost 60% of the referrals by MD’s to Non-MD’s, now it is 40%, while acupuncturists get 43%. Before 1997, we were less than 5%.  I think it has something to do with not having a knee-jerk adversarial relationship with MD’s and that we deliver the goods.

though there was quite an adversarial relationship with md’s at one point. how quickly they forget. As for insurance, many policies do not cover acupuncture, per se. However, in some states like Florida, acupuncturists are reimbursed for such things as performing a physical examination, heat therapy (TDP Lamps & Moxa), Electro acupuncture, and physical therapies (massage & the like).    As a matter of fact, insurance will reimburse based upon regional rates for certain services, rates which often add up to 100% over what I would consider charging.   I expect to see medicare coverage for acupuncture within 5 years as well as increased private & HMO coverage.

not with blue cross blue shield. one of the largest HMOs in florida, i believe. and wont that be nice, with medicare coverage, all of the old folks can go to acupuncturists instead of taking up the doctors’ time. wonder who though up that one…. Incidentally, Acupuncturists are becoming the darling of insurance companies.

are they really? i dont see that happening anywhere except perhaps in california. (and arent they always just cutting edge with the health care out there in california?)   We are generally require fewer visits than the DC’s and thus lower overall treatment costs.

thing is, acupuncture does not CURE anything, and its effects do not last. people who believe in it must go back over and over and over….hey, dang it! why didnt i study acupuncture in college!!!!!   Patients also seem to like us to.   Must be the inherently charming personality of those in the field!  ;)

fer sure. those acupuncturists posting here at mha are the epitomy of caring, empathetic individuals. oww oww! my nose is growing!! Remove one ‘m’ from mpinet to use your reply option….. "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great." Mark Twain Never hate your enemies, it affects your judgement. the Godfather movie

Response:

Thousands of studies on acupuncture exist.   Try going to www.acupuncture.com and follow the links to the studies….

I’m sure there are, Andrew.   I am interested in what you consider are studies that prove acupuncture effective.   You demand peer-reviewed studies of others, what do you consider are good examples from your chosen field.   Others have posted studies, why will you not do so. Best wishes — John Bain UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html Surround Sound for Television

Response:

(JDrew63929) writes: that acupuncture is effective against any disease" and that "the perceived effects of acupuncture are probably due to a combination of expectation, suggestion, counter-irritation, operant conditioning, and other psychological mechanisms…." In short, most of the perceived beneficial effects of acupuncture are probably due to the power of suggestion and the placebo effect.

I am unable to completely agree with such comments. Just as with reflexology. We cannot just dismiss the effects of stimulating the nervous system as just an act of suggestion and a placebo effect. Procedures that have been in use for thousands of years cannot be dismissed so lightly. As with chiros, who’s, as I understand it, actions upon the spinal column, the core of our nervous system, brings relief from certain ailments, so does acupuncture. While, personnally, not liking the idea of having a number of needles stabbed into my body, sometimes in places that at least look undesirable, I would not be closed minded to trying it. I do not know how it could cure anything, but it can I am fairly convinced, treat syptoms, in many ways as effectively as some convential medicine, with far less, possible side effects. There are many MD’s in the UK starting to provide acupuncture. And, not for the Bucks,

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